For the sixth & final blog, our group has decided to post an article about a Chicago charter school that fines students upon receiving a detention. Although this system is efficient, according to school officials, it has sparked a heated debate in regards to whether or not this disciplinary system is truly helping students. Additionally, the fairness of this system has been called into question. What are the possible advantages or disadvantages of this type of disciplinary system? In your personal opinion, do you think this system is appropriate for a public school? Why or why not?
Chicago School Draws Scrutiny Over Student Fines
By Tammy Webber, Associated Press 2/20/12
CHICAGO (AP) — A sense of order and decorum prevails at Noble Street College Prep as students move quickly through a hallway adorned with banners from dozens of colleges. Everyone wears a school polo shirt neatly tucked into khaki trousers. There's plenty of chatter but no jostling, no cellphones and no dawdling.
The reason, administrators say, is that students have learned there is a price to pay — literally — for breaking even the smallest rules.
Noble Network of Charter Schools charges students at its 10 Chicago high schools $5 for detentions stemming from infractions that include chewing gum and having untied shoelaces. Last school year it collected almost $190,000 in discipline "fees" from detentions and behavior classes — a policy drawing fire from some parents, advocacy groups and education experts.
Officials at the rapidly expanding network, heralded by Mayor Rahm Emanuel as a model for the city, say the fees offset the cost of running the detention program and help keep small problems from becoming big ones. Critics say Noble is nickel-and-diming its mostly low-income students over insignificant, made-up infractions that force out kids administrators don't want.
"We think this just goes over the line ... fining someone for having their shoelaces untied (or) a button unbuttoned goes to harassment, not discipline," said Julie Woestehoff, executive director of the Chicago advocacy group Parents United for Responsible Education, which staged protests last week over the policy after Woestehoff said she was approached by an upset parent
Students at Noble schools receive demerits for various infractions — four for having a cellphone or one for untied shoelaces. Four demerits within a two-week period earn them a detention and $5 fine. Students who get 12 detentions in a year must attend a summer behavior class that costs $140.
Superintendent Michael Milkie said the policy teaches the kids — overwhelmingly poor, minority and often hoping to be the first in their families to attend college — to follow rules and produces in a structured learning environment. He points to the network's average ACT score of 20.3, which is higher than at the city's other non-selective public schools, and says more than 90 percent of Noble graduates enroll in college.
While fights can be an almost daily occurrence in some urban high schools, Milkie says there's only about one a year on each Noble campus.
By "sweating the small stuff ... we don't have issues with the big stuff," he said.
Milkie said the fines also help defray the cost of administering after-school detention and the salary of the network's dean of discipline, which otherwise would divert money intended for education.
But Donna Moore said the district is manufacturing problems that lead to unproductive badgering of students, including her 16-year-old son, who had to repeat ninth grade at Noble's Gary Comer College Prep after racking up 33 detentions and several suspensions.
"It was nothing egregious, but just that the little things added up: a shirt unbuttoned, shoes not tied, not tracking the teacher with his eyes," said Moore, adding that her son has an attention disorder. "It's not normal to treat a young adult as a 2-year-old ... kids internalize that."
Woestehoff and Moore said some families have removed their children from Noble schools because they couldn't keep paying the fees, though Moore said her biggest complaint is the infractions. Milkie said Noble sets up payment plans and on rare occasions waives the fees, and students never would be held back a grade solely because they couldn't pay.
Even so, Matthew Mayer, a professor in the graduate school of education at Rutgers University, said a monetary fine is "highly inappropriate" because it likely has no bearing on students' academic performance and disproportionately hurts poor families.
"It's almost medieval in nature. It's a form a financial torture, for lack of a better term," Mayer said.
Emanuel defended the school, saying it gets "incredible" results and parents don't have to send their children there. Charter schools are exempt from most district policies.
Parent Tammy O'Neal said her two daughters are excelling at Noble's Muchin College Prep, and only one ever got detention, for not wearing a belt.
"If a kid is prone to getting in trouble and not taking school seriously, then (the fines are) a steep slope," she said. "But why don't you tell your kid to straighten up?"
Chadie Morris, 16, a sophomore at Noble Street College Prep, carries a 3.8 grade-point average at Noble Street College Prep, but figures she has paid $45 already this year for such things as talking in class.
"Sometimes it can be about the littlest things and you can still get demerits," she said. "Demerits are horrible; detentions are horrible."
But the aspiring lawyer, who struggled with absences until her adviser and principal persuaded her to come back, looks forward to attending a one-week summer college program.
Other charter school operators in Chicago and elsewhere said they don't fine students but respect Noble's academic success and its right to adopt its own discipline policy.
Tim King, CEO of Urban Prep Academies, which operates three high schools for boys in some of Chicago's toughest and poorest neighborhoods, said he believes "very firmly in a more therapeutic or restorative approach vs. punitive toward student conduct."
Every student in Urban Prep's first two graduating classes was accepted to a college or university.
At Knowledge is Power Program, a network of 109 charter schools in 20 states and the District of Columbia, middle school students are rewarded for good behavior with a weekly incentive "paycheck" — fake money that can be redeemed at the school store or used to defray the cost of field trip, spokesman Steve Mancini said. The system is phased out by high school because it's no longer needed.
Milkie, though, doesn't plan to change a thing.
"It's a beautiful system," he said. "I don't want to brag, but it is. It's why the kids are so successful."
In this photo taken Feb. 16, 2012, Noble Street College Prep CEO Mike Milke talks with student Gabriela Cervantes during school in Chicago. The school has drawn scrutiny some parents and advocacy groups for its policy of charging students $5 for detentions stemming from infractions that can include chewing gum and having untied shoelaces. (AP Photo/M. Spencer Green)
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In this photo taken Feb. 16, 2012, Noble Street College Prep principal William Olsen and students Chadie Morris, left, and Khadijah Hallmon walk through the hall of their school in Chicago. The school has drawn scrutiny some parents and advocacy groups for its policy of charging students $5 for detentions stemming from infractions that can include chewing gum and having untied shoelaces. (AP Photo/M. Spencer Green)
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In this photo taken Feb. 16, 2012, Noble Street College Prep students Khadijah Hallmon, left, and Chadie Morris pose in the hall of their school in Chicago. The school has a policy of charging students $5 for detentions stemming from infractions that can include chewing gum and having untied shoelaces. (AP Photo/M. Spencer Green)
Here's a link to the article:
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1) This article is a very interesting article that could have a lot to debate about. Many student's in today's schools don't really care if they get in trouble or that they have to serve a detention. A lot of people care about money, and this school decided to have the students pay for the things that they are doing that violate the school code. I believe that it is a little harsh for the students to have to pay $5. However, since the student's care about money, maybe they will start to follow the rules. I do not believe that it is appropriate for public schools to use the system though. It is very expensive, and some students don't have money as it is. These were all small offenses like chewing gum and not wearing a belt. Therefore, the $5 system for everything they do wrong should not be allowed.
ReplyDelete1.Of course the discipline is out of good wish, but the fine is a double-edge sword. In one way, it can help the students to revise and stop the bad habits efficiently and quickly, but it will also get the poor students into trouble since it is just public school.
ReplyDeleteWhat's more, the kids should have the chance to make mistakes and learn from that in the childhood, that is the better way to learn the listen and change the habits. Just using the fine can not let them really understands it, maybe they will have it again when there is no fine discipline.And they will not have any chance to make mistake and be forgiven without any cost.
There is another problem that where is this fine goes to? These fines are the extra profits of the schools or they will be reused on these kids? When times goes on, there maybe some trouble that some person use this method to gain money and ask detention purposely.
1. Kids need discipline to steer them in the right path in life as this school has noticed but what they failed to understand is that kids are kids and they make mistakes. And that the mistakes they make help them become a well-rounded person by helping them evolve. What this school is teaching these kids is not only to obey laws, but they are also teaching them that mistakes are bad. Yes, mistakes are unflavored but they help out a person in the long run to prevent anything more serious to happen. This school has took disciplinary actions above and beyond the line, hurting the kids as well as their families incomes by charging kids for ludicrous things. This school has become money hungry and became desperate to get money by charging kids. This is not appropriate for a public school. Public schools are not prep school and should not be able to make such rules that are not related to education , such as untied shoes. These rules are outlandish.
ReplyDelete1) From my knowledge, there are many punishments that are used to control peoples actions, but the one that hits home to everyone is in their pockets. Everyone wants to make money and they surely do not want to give it away over little infractions. Therefore, this is a very effective disciplinary system. But looking on the other side of this punishment, it seems almost immoral to me. You're bringing in city kids who for the most part are poor. They're taking away the little bit of funds that they had, leaving them worse-off in the future. For the $190,000 that the schools took, those kids could be using that money to pay for their college tuition! And to say that over 90% of their students attend college is a bold statement... That's because they weeded out the bad kids and ones who could simply not afford it; leaving only the superior.
ReplyDelete7. This article is an informative one. While being slightly biased towards opposing the fees in schools, it gives both sides of the argument and lets the reader formulate their own opinion. All in all, I think it probably is pretty convincing to most that the fees are unfair and detrimental to the kids which it probably is.
ReplyDelete1. I agree with the above comment that the article is slightly biased. I believe that the school should not be able to charge students per infraction. I believe that this would not be fair in a public school system because not all of the students would be as well off as those in a charter school. Students may not have the money to keep up with the infractions at a public school because some will be from less well off families. As per the fairness of the system because it is a private charter school they may do as they like. The parents of the children they send their should and probably do know that the school charges per infraction and would have to accept that if they want their kids to go there.
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ReplyDelete1. I don't believe schools should be able to charge fees for infractions. Although they might help to keep kids in line, a public school should not have the authority to enact these policies. One reason being, kids might not have the money to afford the infractions. If this is the case then parents would end up paying for the infractions or they would simply drop out of school. It's unreasonable for a public schools to exert this much control, if parents wanted the dress code they have the ability to enroll their kids in private school. It's unreasonable for a public school to force these rules upon kids.
ReplyDelete7. The topic in this article is clearly a controversial one because it challenges people's beliefs and morals. Based on the previous comments, it seems like everyone can come to the consensus that this form of punishment is not exactly ideal. These families do not have the kind of money laying around to pay for petty mishaps. Since when is chewing gum and having an untied shoe lace a unacceptable? Those "infractions" deserve a "please spit out your gum" or "your shoe lace is untied, you might want to tie it so you don't trip!" It's not like they're going to start committing ACTUAL crimes just because they don't pay a fine for chewing gum. It doesn't seem like this article changed many peoples views or values because this form of punishment is so ridiculous. On the other hand, some people can see why the school officials do it; but they wouldn't be one to support it.
ReplyDelete1. I believe that this school should not be asking for children to pay fees for their demerits. I do not agree with this form of punishment and in a public school this should definitely not be allowed. The actions that are causing children to pay these $5 fees are so small in the scheme of it all. If the school wants their children to be successful and punish them for misbehaving or not following the rules, they should leave the punishment at detention. When money is brought into it-the whole family of the child is being punished rather than just the child that misbehaved. The kids may be great students and sometimes need some independence in order to mature and with these rules of this school the kids probably feel stressed and uncomfortable. The children should not be forced to pay a fee because it is not like it is their money, it comes from their parents and family. I think the rules and guidelines for this school should be evaluated. Is it really necessary to hand out detentions and require fees for a child with an untied shoe? Larger issues occur in schools today and those are the issues that need to be addressed.
ReplyDelete7. I think that the article elicits strong opinions from its reader. It is a little bit biased, but i think that the reader can't help but take a side - the reader must determine whether or not it is fair for the school to charge students for their infractions. Personally, I do not think that it is fair. However, it does offer strong incentive for students to be mindful of their actions. This is not the best way to enforce the rules, but, I do believe that there needs to be incentive.
ReplyDelete1. I think this news article is very interesting and is extremely controversial. I don't believe public schools should have the authority to charge kids for violations. I believe that it is very strict for the students to have to pay $5 if they simply forget a belt or chew gum. Although it might help with keeping kids in line, they should not be allowed to go through with this. Kids might not have the money to provide every time they get in trouble. It's irrational for public schools to utilize this much control and take it to this extreme. It can become a very expensive system, and some students don't have money as it is. If parents wanted a dress code, they have the capability to send their kids to private school. It's crazy for a public school to force these rules upon kids. I do not agree with it at all.
ReplyDelete1 - Based solely on the visual elements in the article, namely the three attached pictures, I believe the article is suggesting that its central theme is the currently implemented student fine system is a valid, working punishment. All three pictures show female students that appear happy - all are either smiling or laughing. Their clothing and appearance suggest that they are tidy, neat, focused, and studious. The characteristics shown by the young ladies in these photographs are all qualities generally associated with being successful. The pictures, in association with the article, are therefore implying that because of the school's fine policy, the students are more successful than a school district that lacks this same system of punishment. Is this really the case? Or are the pictures implying something else?
ReplyDelete7. This article is very controversial because it does talk about the fees which do tamper with peoples morals and ideas. Like most of my classmates said i do feel like this article is slightly biased but i feel like it is not out of place for the author to be a bit biased based on the story. Personally based on my morals and ideas i feel like this is wrong to make students pay for their infractions. The school could find a better way to deal with this than reaching into the pockets of their students and realistically the families of the students who attend this school.
ReplyDelete1. I think the opinion of this topic will vary between personality types. People who believe in a firm set of rules that should never be broken will love these policies but people who like individuality and being yourself will not like these changes. I believe $5 is a lot for students who at their age will not have the money to pay for these fines or they will be spending their only money on fines. I think accidentally forgetting a belt or having your shoe laces untied is fine and will not turn into a problem. I think this school system is taking advantage of their kids because they do not have the power to turn down the system. I think this policy will hurt the school system in the end because people will leave the school system because of these harsh policies.
ReplyDeleteIt is not right to force students to pay fines for detention. The student's at this charter school are put in detention for minor infractions and are then forced to literally pay for them. Although paying for their mistakes may reduce the frequency of these infractions due to the consequence, the fine may be too much for some students to handle in addition to the tuition they pay. The opportunity cost of that detention could have a domino effect into what that money could have been used for. Despite charter schools not needing to abide by district policy, the initiation of this system is not fair. This system should definitley not be initiated in public schools, especially because the student's attending public school are more likely to have trouble paying the fines.
ReplyDelete1) I think that this disciplinary method is a joke. I don't see this as necessary. There are other ways to earn students' respect and attention. This is an unusual method and needs to be ended. It is solely an excuse to make money. The school may say that it causes students to be attentive and it may. However, other punishments can get students' attention. A law should be passed to eliminate this method from schools. Five dollars may be a student's lunch money or food money for the whole day. It is cruel and unusual to take money from young kids. This school will be receiving bad publicity for this, and it is for good reason!
ReplyDelete- Joe Bilardello
1. This article is very interesting. My old high school actually fines students if they continue to come late for first period after 2 warnings or continue to have dress code violations. I found them to be very unreasonable because our school didn't even have buses for students who didn't live close to the school. It was a private school and I lived 25 minutes away. There were times when my dad and I got caught in traffic and caused me to be late. They were understanding if you parent called ahead, but if you forgot then the charge was given. This article makes it seem like it is such a good thing and more schools should do it, but I disagree. All it really did in my school was cause people to have a negative view of all the school officials. Also, some kids felt the pressure of the strict collar only dress code for guys. Some families were tight on money and couldn't afford multiple clothes for their child so they had to continue to wear the same thing every week. Some immature students saw this as a chance to make fun of the kid. It was a horrible thing to do but he had no choice because if he didn't, he would get fined.
ReplyDeleteMost high school students do not have a steady income and cannot afford to pay $5 for every little inccident. It is unreasonable for schools, especially public schools, to do such a thing.
1. I think this article is also very interesting, but I also find it to be wrong. There are many other ways to punish a student other than making them pay money. I know detentions are sometimes not enough to cause a student to stop misbehaving but there are families out there who can hardly put a meal on the table for the night, and now they want them to pay for little misbehaviors at school. I simply think this is very unnecessary and unreasonable for high school students to pay like this.
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